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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[rb]

I don't have much faith in this ranking system.

What I want to know is how fast each team is, not how many races they've been in. Looking at this it would look like Swordfish is faster than Pemberton Bald Eagles and Capital Iron, or VO2Max is faster than Laoyam or San Fran Dragon Warriors. Those are just some examples of rankings that don't look right.

I know there's no perfect system but unfortunately this one is a bit misleading the way it is. Also it's only the top mixed teams, it would be great to have all the teams and the different divisions e.g. womens, seniors etc.

Alcan's rankings are much better than these, the problem with those is that it's a lot of work so they only do it once a year, and they don't publish it, but damn it would be good to see.

How about it Alcanranker, put 'em up next year?

rb

[kryssee]

Somebody start ranking the women's teams already! Some of us will be ranked higher than some mixed teams out there..honest!!! 

[Backward Rowing]

Faith in the system, rb?  You may be right in the criticism of the system being based on number of festivals than speed, but because we don't race in the same boats, nor is every event in a canal, that we can ever have a perfect ranking system.  As stated earlier, this is more like standings.  As for faith in Alcan, I don't because many teams peak later in the season, such as at Victoria and Kelowna.  Also, one bad race and you are knocked down.  If you can develop a better system, I suggest you tackle the issue head-on.

The same criticism goes to kryssee.  If you want women teams, men's teams, blind team, master teams, bc survivor teams rankings, then do the work yourself and post it here.  Simple as that.  Everyone here that posts, included the "rankings" are doing so voluntarily, with volunteer hours.

On that, I tried doing it myself.  I gave up on the frustrating part of how to account for currents in a race (for the west coast).  It just got too complicated.

[rb]

Backward Rowing, thanks for the feedback and also the info on Victoria.

Just to clarify, my point was that I had faith in the Alcan ranking not the Alcan race results. I also think the race results are a good indication but the ranking is awesome. Prior to Alcan they have a whole team of volunteers go through the previous year's results including Victoria and Kelowna and vote on who they think is faster than whom, tabulate it all and have one mother-of-all ranking lists. That's the one that I'd be interested in seeing, it has all the teams and the divisions and is based on who beat who in previous races. That's one hell of a volunteer effort. I suggested AlcanRanker post it.

That kind of effort makes for a good race but can't be done year-round as a ranking system, that's way too much work.

After re-reading this thread I get the point that the rankings on this page are more like standings. I'm content now that I know how to read it.

Thanks.

rb

p.s. I know you probably weren't serious but I have to say I don't think the blind teams want their own division, they like to compete with everyone else that's the point, and if you've ever seen Eye Of The Dragon you might suggest that they start a little behind the line just to make it fair for the other teams 

[BernMan]

...rb and BackwardRowing, especially the last two points you guys posted. But in all honesty AlcanRanker needs more volunteers/coaches/paddlers to help get every team listed. I know this because I have spoken with AlcanRanker and considering the number of us involved in DB racing the number of people who replied to the request for feedback and ranking was quite low IMO. But in the end with the help that was provided a pretty darn good ranking system does appear to have been achieved. As for speed results I suppose in the grand scheme of things that isn't so important if all of the upper level teams were competing in the same venues, right? However it would be good to see the speed/race time just so that the rest of the teams aspiring to be a good as the upper level teams can set targets to get close to their times. Of course location of which body of water you use to try to get the same results does indeed matter though, IMO. Good points in the last few posts!

[CheckTheBoat]

...rb and BackwardRowing, especially the last two points you guys posted. But in all honesty AlcanRanker needs more volunteers/coaches/paddlers to help get every team listed. I know this because I have spoken with AlcanRanker and considering the number of us involved in DB racing the number of people who replied to the request for feedback and ranking was quite low IMO. But in the end with the help that was provided a pretty darn good ranking system does appear to have been achieved. As for speed results I suppose in the grand scheme of things that isn't so important if all of the upper level teams were competing in the same venues, right? However it would be good to see the speed/race time just so that the rest of the teams aspiring to be a good as the upper level teams can set targets to get close to their times. Of course location of which body of water you use to try to get the same results does indeed matter though, IMO. Good points in the last few posts!

Because of each race having different conditions it is very difficult to have a very good ranking system that satisfies everyone.  In your opinion how would a ranking system somewhat based on time work?  I was thinking of something along the lines of having the first place team from a race have a time of 0:00 and then you would receive a timing from there to rank you...such as the second place team finishing 2.3 seconds behind would be -0:023.  After all the races you can have a cumulative time based on every heat and the team with the lowest total time "behind leader" would receive top points for the festival??

For example:

Race 1                            Race 2                     Race 3                    Total Time
Team 1  0:00                  Team 2  0:00            Team  1  0:00          Team 1   -0:02           First Place 20 Points
Team 3 -0:015                Team 1 -0:02             Team 2 -0:014         Team 2  -0:048         Second Place 18 Points
Team 2 -0:034                Team 3 -0:025           Team 3 -0:023         Team 3  -0:063         Third Place  16 Points
Team 4 -0:056                Team 4 -0:041           Team 4 -0:035         Team 4  -0:133         Fourth Place 14 Points

Etc....

Thoughts??  This way you are comparing overal results compared to the top placed team in the festival and also accounts for different race conditions.

[BernMan]

...only this time by CheckTheBoat. You know what you say does make sense to me. It will take a bit of work but once you have all the data tabulated it should be simple enough to maintain. I am not one to do such a thing because it does seem like a lot of work to me. But then again I was never a strong data gatherer either! Maybe it is easier than I am making it out to be. But yes it seems to make sense to me that one would use the fastest time of the day and go down from there. But what if the faster time was posted by someone not even in the top final? I am not sure if in your example addresses this. I say this because, as you already pointed out, because of tidal differences and winds and whatever else you can think of that can affect conditions and outcomes, it is very possible (and I believe it has even happened before!) where the lower final, say a Comp B or C could end up with a faster finish time than someone in Comp A. So how does that factor in? Maybe it is tougher to do like I started off saying.  Unless you can add bonus points for respective divisions you end up in as well along with the time differences? Gosh I dunno.

[CheckTheBoat]

As a follow up to my post a couple of days ago I have done some work with the Calgary Festival and have a different ranking system available.  Unfortunately I am not great at attaching files without the dummy system so if someone could help me attach an excel file on here I can put some backbone to my idea.

I found the results worked well with a few exceptions which may or may not be able to fix.  The results are based on a heat by heat result and would help to compare team festival to festival without worrying about different conditions and such.

If you would like the file just give me a shout and I can email it to you if this doesn't work attaching it to the site.

Thanks,
The Aquanauts "Challenged Leader" (Thanks Puppy)

[kryssee]

Backyard Rowing said"

The same criticism goes to kryssee.  If you want women teams, men's teams, blind team, master teams, bc survivor teams rankings, then do the work yourself and post it here.  Simple as that.  Everyone here that posts, included the "rankings" are doing so voluntarily, with volunteer hours.

I already posted in another topic that I wouldn't be able to do it because I wouldn't have the first clue where to start...all my hats off to those who do it, and yes I know it's voluntary. Thanks for the suggestion..however rude it was..

[Backward Rowing]

Thanks for the suggestion..however rude it was..

Sorry kryssee, it wasn't meant to be a slag.  I type way too fast, and I hate editing my own work. 

[kryssee]

No problem..thanks..you also caught me after a week of holidays with 4 kids under 5...I admit..I was a bit, er, um, what do you call it? EXHAUSTED!!!