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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[Secret Weapon]

Mr Guido I think we all know what I meant by defining the word team.  FCRCC was in the past the only team to bring in 'ringers', if you like.  Now many other teams are going that way and I don't look at it as a positive step.  Everyone might as well pool together and just be one big team and only the best race and everyone else can be a bench warmer.  But I guess it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and I better get my sorry butt to the gym before I lose my seat to some flattie that's never been in a dragon boat.

And back to your question...am I jealous of Paddleboy?  You bet have you seen the size of him!!!! 

[Colossus]

team

1. a group of people forming one side in a sports competition

2. a number of people organized to function cooperatively as a group

Has FCRCC finally put together their roster?  I heard they're still looking for the best of the best.  No doubt they'll clean up at every festival this year (if they use their fly in's), but I don't consider them a 'team'.  A group of paddlers maybe, but not a team.  Looks like other top notch teams are going the same path as FCRCC this year as 'teams' get ready for Toronto.  Alot of new faces on the top crews this year.  To bad so sad for those that didn't make the cut, maybe they should all get together and form a new team.

Hey paddleboy why did you switch teams?????  Did you get too big for your spandex on PR????

When I trained and fought at national level Judo back in the day, the way they selected the provincial and national teams was by taking the best fighters there were.  You win the fights, you make the team. 
Olympic team selection I'm assuming is the same.  You qualify for the tournaments, win the qualifiers and you're on the team. 
Would you not call these teams either?  FCRCC & the other teams are doing the same thing.  If you want to make the team, you show up and "try out" and enter the qualifying matches (races/time trials).  If you win, hey, congrats!  If you don't, sorry, try harder next time and use it as motivation if thats a level you'd like to achieve/race with.  Welcome to competition and higher level athleticism.  This isn't kindergarten where everyone is a winner.

[rightarm]

This isn't kindergarten where everyone is a winner.

ITS NOT?!?!?!

  

[Colossus]

Mr Guido I think we all know what I meant by defining the word team.  FCRCC was in the past the only team to bring in 'ringers', if you like.  Now many other teams are going that way and I don't look at it as a positive step.  Everyone might as well pool together and just be one big team and only the best race and everyone else can be a bench warmer.  But I guess it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and I better get my sorry butt to the gym before I lose my seat to some flattie that's never been in a dragon boat.

how is it not a possitive step?  if a team wants to get seriously competitive, thats the way its done WORLD WIDE.  if you are up for the challenge of that level of competition, work you butt off and stay on the team.  if not, find a different one. 

[DBWTim]

First I would like to apologize to those that confused with how the White Rock thread has been split. There was essentially two topics in one thread so I decided to split the thread into two... one to discuss the White Rock races and this one to continue the discussion on the definition of a "team".

Regarding Secret Weapon's definitions of team and with the FCRCC teams in particular... technically they would still fit into both of his definitions.. if it is interpreted to apply to the entire False Creek Racing and Canoe Club with it's so-and-so number of members (sorry, I don't have access to the extent of their membership). Using that interpretation, their teams are a representation of their entire membership and not set at 20 paddlers and 4 spares, plus one drummer and steersperson which will be set last minute. Every member has the opportunity to respresent their club and strive to land a position on the boat. Thus, the club would then be working cooperatively to field the best team they can get out of their membership.

Now if you ask me if it is ethical to replace someone that's been paddling since the beginning of a season with a stronger paddler five minutes before a race... I would have to say that it depends on the level of competition you're in. For the competitively-minded, why wouldn't you want to replace a weaker paddler with a stronger one? People have to look at the bigger picture and stop thinking about MeMeMe... also you should have known what you were getting into when you tried out for FCRCC, in particular. Not meaning to step on people's toes... but if anyone has hurt feelings about losing their seat, they are either ignorant to not know that they are on a team known to parachute paddlers in last minute or just plain arrogant to think they would never lose their seat. Either case, you reap what you sow.

For the recreational teams... remember it's just a game of who can get to the finish line first. You're in the Recreational division for a reason... and that's to have fun and drink a couple pints in the beer garden between races... medalling is just the icing on the cake. No matter what you think... there are no lucrative sponsorship deals, no front page sports section spreads highlighting your come from behind victory. If you think that replacing a weaker paddler on your team would help you to get a medal in the Rec division... you've got problems. In the end a gold medal in Rec A is really just 28th overall at Alcan. If this doesn't sit well with you then I recommend you pick up a paddle and try out for a competitive team. Even then Comp C is still the old Rec A...

The definition of team is really up to each person's interpretation even though the textbook definition goes to the effect of, "A team is a cooperative unit." Now how do you define cooperative? A team full of people that hate each other can still move a boat together in perfect time.

After all that meaningless babble, my definition of a team is the name you entered on your waivers and registration where it asks for Team Name. From past experience, we all know that people come and go and it is the name of the team that as a symbol remains the same, much like professional sports.

Oh and I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the notion that teams like Little Boat and Easy Peezy are "ringer" teams...

[zephyrantes]

yeah! like what he said!

[Guido]

Regarding Guido's definitions of team and with the FCRCC teams in particular...

Umm...sorry...not my definition....it belongs to MR. Secret Weapon.  I'd never come up with a definition as such.

[DBWTim]

Umm...sorry...not my definition....it belongs to MR. Secret Weapon.  I'd never come up with a definition as such.

Revised and Corrected

[brainiac]

Now if you ask me if it is ethical to replace someone that's been paddling since the beginning of a season with a stronger paddler five minutes before a race... I would have to say that it depends on the level of competition you're in.

IMO, as long as the paddlers know the roster selection criteria when they join, it is ethical for a team to use any method it feels like to figure out who paddles in the race and who doesn't (paddling ability, attendance at practices, seniority, willingness to kiss the coach's *ss). This applies regardless of whether a team is "competitive" or "recreational". However, it makes sense for competitive teams to use ability as the main criteria while it really doesn't make sense for rec teams (unless they are wannabe comp teams).

[Colossus]

agreed with mr. chaos and mr. brainiac

[KarenRobertsPDX]

In the end a gold medal in Rec A is really just 28th overall at Alcan. If this doesn't sit well with you then I recommend you pick up a paddle and try out for a competitive team. Even then Comp C is still the old Rec A...

It's amazing that you think 28th overall in probably the biggest race on the west coast is something to look down your nose at.  I guess when you were in your first few years of paddling you were on a top 10 team at Alcan, right?  How many teams in the top 30 this past year have been around for two years or less?  I know of one for sure.

[Colossus]

what he was getting at (and you failed to include in your quote), was that if you of the competitive mind that you need to bring in paddlers just so you can win gold in a rec division, you've got issues and/or are paddling for the wrong team.  oh wait, he said exactly that already, but you obviously missed it.  if you have the mindset of being "the best you can at all costs", get out there and work your ass off, and fight for a spot on a team that better suits your goals and mentality.

[Secret Weapon]

Sorry to not stay on topic in the other thread.  There have been some very valid points made and I totallly agree with fighting for your seat on  'National' and 'Olympic' levels and brining in 'fly ins'.  I still don't agree with paddlers who pay their membership fees to a team, practice with them all season and get sat out on race day at Alcan or smaller festivals to someone who hasn't paid and hasn't practiced at all with the core team.  I'm not just referring to FCRCC.  It is my own opinion and I'm just thankful I pull good enough time trials to maintain my own seat.  I guess you can just call me a softy.

[rightarm]

I still don't agree with paddlers who pay their membership fees to a team, practice with them all season and get sat out on race day at Alcan or smaller festivals to someone who hasn't paid and hasn't practiced at all with the core team. 

i have no problem with teams that come together just for a festival or any of hte other things mentioned ppreviously... BUt the specific situation you just described, i would have a problem with that.  if only because the paddler hasn't made a commitment to that team, and to usurp the one that has... competitive or no, that's not right.  most sports leagues and tournaments at all levels have rules about substitutes/imports/designated "players"/etc and there are qualification requirements.  at most festivals i've taken part in, i've seen some, at the festival level (eg. the wrist bands).  I would hope that any team, again competitive or not, would require a paddler to at least compete for a spot on the team AND pay their dues (financial and otherwise) before being allowed to race with the crew and potentially take a spot away from someone else who has done those things.


as for the comment of eezy peezy being a "ringer" team... as a member of version 1 of that side-project, that's very flattering, but overstating the situation    it was just a group of people mainly from two teams who love to paddle and compete hard.