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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[gunghaggis]

I asked ADBF if the BUK's would be available for practices leading up to ADBF weekend, a month ago.  The answer was maybe for the week before the races.  I did cite safety issues and familiarity with equipment as main importance for having BUK's available.  ADBF replied that the BUK's did not belong to ADBF - but were being rented from Water's Edge. 

It was also explained that when you travel to a different race site, you often have to familiarize yourself with new equipment immediately.  eg. Dynasty boats in Calgary, Millenium boats in Victoria, BUK's in San Francisco.

Years ago... ADBF used to have "Mandatory Practices" to help familiarize teams with the equipment, loading procedures etc.  This was especially important for novice crews, and it was to make sure that these crews had at least four practices before a race.  ADBF no longer has the mandatory practices, and instead gave coaching sessions to novice teams practicing from Dragon Zone to ensure safety, and familiarity with equipment. 

If these BUK's are so delicate, and skittish to handle, and prone to steering equipment breakages... safety become an even more important issue to ensure familiarity with equipment.

[paddleboy]

 the Buk's aren't anymore prone to breakage than any other boat .


 I saw what happened to the BUK,I was right there , and its was clearly the mistake of the steersperson and he is experienced I believe .He allowed the oar to go under as they were backing up .......He should have called for the boat to hold hard or paddle forward when he saw he made the mistake but he chose to try avoid embarrassment and try to correct the mistake himself, which as you can see did not work , and he went for a swim and the boat ended up damaged .

 This could have happened to anyone or any type of boat .In future I suggest if you're a steersman and make a mistake don't try to muscle it yourself ...you won't win in most cases .Tell the crew to hold hard and move forward...........

[madcap]

I think this steersman was between a rock and a hard place, namely a big ugly barge and an oncoming dragonboat. Your're right he should have held hard.But the BUKs have the U shaped steering bracket, unlike the Geminis and the 6/16s. The steering bracket cord on the Gem and 6/16 gives a lot when this problem occurs in those boats, and the BUK does not. This has resulted in breakage in all the FCRCC buks. Funny that the FCRCC other boats have not had any serious damage to the steering mechanisms, and this steering error happens often in all boats.

[StraightLine]

But the BUKs have the U shaped steering bracket, unlike the Geminis and the 6/16s. The steering bracket cord on the Gem and 6/16 gives a lot when this problem occurs in those boats, and the BUK does not. This has resulted in breakage in all the FCRCC buks. Funny that the FCRCC other boats have not had any serious damage to the steering mechanisms, and this steering error happens often in all boats.

Have a look at the Concord Pacific and the Channel M 6/16s the next time you're at DragonZone.  Both boats have U-Bolt brackets and they are bent backwards from steerspeople pulling up too hard on the oar or the oar getting caught in the water while the boat is moving backwards.  The FCRCC 6/16 has had the steering arm ripped off on more than one occasion and the bolts forming the steering yoke on the Geminis are usually loose.

The main problem is a lack of experience and sloppy habits on the part of steerspeople.  What happened to Eye of the Dragon is going to happen occasionally, but the damage to the 6/16s at DZ is indicative of teams abusing the boats.

In my opinion, the current training for steerspeople does not adequately prepare novice steerspeople to physically handle the boats and what the limits are for what the boat can physically handle.

As for the plastic/nylon pins that were/are being used to mount the steering arm on the BUKs, my understanding is the intent of the break away pin is to minimize the damage to a boat when the steering arm hits the boat.  Again it comes down to teams not taking enough care with the boats.

StraightLine

[tjl]

Right on. What works in the 6-16, and the Geminis does not necessarily work on the buks. They are light, fast and delicate. We should treat them as such. They are as skittish as a thoroughbred should be.

Maybe I am just used to the BuKs (plenty of them around here in San Francisco), but I do not find them more difficult to steer than the Geminis.

Perhaps the difference in feel is in the arrangement of the steering boxes.  The BuK has a large flat steering platform, while the Gemini has a pit that is lower and more forward.  That may make the Gemini feel more stable to the steersperson standing there, but limit the ability to step back to raise the steering oar handle in challenging conditions.  That said, a novice steersperson in either a BuK or Gemini in challenging conditions (e.g. saturday afternoon last year at Treasure Island) will have a handful.

From what I have seen and heard about in San Francisco, damage to the BuKs seems to be from collisions, as opposed to bending up the U-bolt or whatever.  One collision resulted in breaking the wood piece for the steering oarlock (the wood piece was the only part that was contacted by the ramming boat), but no other damage.

6-16s are easier to steer in a straight line than either BuKs or Geminis.

[rightarm]

Perhaps the difference in feel is in the arrangement of the steering boxes.  The BuK has a large flat steering platform, while the Gemini has a pit that is lower and more forward.  That may make the Gemini feel more stable to the steersperson standing there, but limit the ability to step back to raise the steering oar handle in challenging conditions.  That said, a novice steersperson in either a BuK or Gemini in challenging conditions (e.g. saturday afternoon last year at Treasure Island) will have a handful.

I was under the impression the buk's at san fran last year were an "older model" than the ones we have on the creek up here, not sure if that equates to a difference in steering or not (I'd guess probably not)

I wonder though based on your comments if your Gemini's are different than ours?  maybe i'm misreading it, but our geminis have a raised platform for the steers to stand on vs a pit to stand in, which as a tall person i find somewhat unsettling in rough water as you become very top heavy.  I've never steered a buk, so i have no means for comparison, but personally if they feel less stable than a gem, i'll stick to paddling 

I think steering on Saturday afternoon last year would be challenging to most steers people. that was crazy

[BlueStreak]

I've steered in both and the steering platform on a BuK is noticeably higher than the platform on a Gemini. So standing up in Buk feels less stable than the Gemini.

Also, the Gemini "paddler's seating pit" extends back behind the last seat a little bit whereas on a Buk it ends right at the last seat. So the steer's person area on a gemini sort of has this second lower level. Its not very big but its a good place to stick a foot to get a lower and more stable stance.

[tjl]

I was under the impression the buk's at san fran last year were an "older model" than the ones we have on the creek up here, not sure if that equates to a difference in steering or not (I'd guess probably not)

The BuKs at the 2006 San Francisco race were all of the older model, but the steering boxes are the same on the newer models.

I wonder though based on your comments if your Gemini's are different than ours?  maybe i'm misreading it, but our geminis have a raised platform for the steers to stand on vs a pit to stand in, which as a tall person i find somewhat unsettling in rough water as you become very top heavy.  I've never steered a buk, so i have no means for comparison, but personally if they feel less stable than a gem, i'll stick to paddling 

The Geminis that I steered were in Vancouver in 2005.  I suppose you could stand on the "steps" behind the pit and steer -- that would definitely feel unstable compared to standing in the pit just behind the last seat.  It does look like the middle "step" in the Gemini is about the same level as the steering box in the BuK, but if you steer with one foot in front of the other, your feet will be on different "steps" (see the pictures below).

Below are pictures from the manufacturers' web sites:

Gemini steering area:


BuK steering area (two different views):

I think steering on Saturday afternoon last year would be challenging to most steers people. that was crazy

Yes, I watched the head of the boat on the left get very close, then suddenly disappear behind as they lost control and veered to the right while I was giving maximum steering to the left to stay approximately on course.  In two different races.