[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

 

Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

187 Guests, 0 Users

[DiggerPig]

Let me start off my post with only respect for those men and women that take on the challenge of organizing the many events that we get to paddle in.  Without you doing what you do then I would have a long and boring summer ahead of me. 

No the reason for this post was to repeat my frustration with Gemini boats and the fact that 6/16 makes great training boats but not so great racing boats; actually the same could be said about Gemini’s as training boats (great) racing boats (not so great).   Last week I had the opportunity to talk to another paddler over some wobbly pops  and found out that Alcan will be running heats with BUK and 6/16 – although I can not confirm or deny if that is the case I was left wondering why we could not have our premier event on the West Coast run with one set of boats … specifically BUK? 

The simply answer would be that there are not enough BUKs to run two heats (16-18?) but then as the conversation when on I wondered if that was true … so as a guess only (please confirm if you know)

1.   Waters Edge – 6 BUK Boats - confirmed
2.   False Creek Rowing and Canoe Club- 3 BUK boats - confirmed
3.   Burnaby Kayak and Canoe Club – 2 BUK boats
4.   Lotus Club – 2 BUK boats
5.   Fort Langley – 1 BUK Boat
6.   Sudden Impact – 1 BUK Boat - confirmed
7.   Mana Wahine – 1 BUK Boat - confirmed
8.   Sunshine coast – 2 BUK???
9.   Dragon Zone?
10.   Deep Cove?

I’m just saying that there should be 16-17 out there … then again I am guessing a bit 

[paddlecwazy]

First, they won't be using 6/16's ......from the Official Rules:

"4.1.1    The racing fleet of dragon boats is comprised of fiberglass “BUKâ€� dragon boats and “Geminiâ€� dragon boats."


Second, as to why they won't be using all BUK's, I think it comes down to logistics.  A lot of the boat's you have identified are spread throughout the lower mainland and beyond, and I would assume that the time and effort and manpower required to get them all down to creek would be beyond the scope of the race organisers. 

I know they call for volunteers after hours to help them get their own BUK's out of storage and onto their trailer when preparing for local festivals.

As well, I don't think you can assume that some of those boats owners would want there prized equipment subjected to the rigors of racing in the creek.  With all the collisions that occured last year, if I was going to consider renting a BUK out to ADBF I would want to be compensated well and see evidence of some form of insurance to cover any damages.

As for the Gemini's, I think most paddlers have come to accept them as a fact of life for the short to medium term.  I would disagree and say they are not great training boats but good racing boats.  The seat spacing forces a very cramped paddling style which can be tolerated for a race, but not for a 90 minute practice.  The big plus for the Gemini's over the 6/16's is that they are all even and provide for very fair racing.

[BernMan]

paddlecwazy I had more or less the same thing written up when I decided to do a spell check and then WHAMO! it disappeared off my screen. You said pretty well what I was going to say word for word. I must know you personally. Do I?   

Anyway 6-16's IMO are a thing of the past. I surely doubt you can find 8 comparable ones to make any race heat fair. I don't think there are even 4 that are as new and in good a shape as each other. What is the youngest one's age now? 4 or 5 years old? Maybe more?

So gems and buks will be the boats of choice I think.

[Secret Weapon]

How do we know all the Gemini's are even and fair? They too are now several years old. And the 6 BUK's Water's Edge provides are only used for races, the other 3 BUK's are used every day for practices. Will there be some variance between these boats as well?

Are the boats properly cleaned before Alcan still? I'd love to flip them over and have a look at them.

Anyone???

[Olde One]

Are the boats properly cleaned before Alcan still? I'd love to flip them over and have a look at them.

Anyone???

FC Grandragons clean the FCRCC boats monthly and just before major races. They were cleaned just before the FCRCC Regatta and will be cleaned again before Alcan.

[paddlecwazy]

Thanks for the update on the boats being cleaned...

And extra BIG thanks for the act of cleaning the boats... it's most appreciated by all.

[DiggerPig]

Interesting comments paddlecwazy ... I wonder if you're a "new member" or a returning member on DBW as you appear to have a lot of input, insight, and opinions on various topics ... 

You are correct in stating that some assumptions are being made especially about the Mana Wahine boat (I know I'm going to hear about it) that some owners would not want their boats used at Alcan but if there is money involved they have to get paid off somehow.  Most Regatta's have insurance to cover damage so I suspect that any damage made would be compensated ... than again that is another assumption ...

No this post was to stimulate conversation and hope that one day we could have a regatta with just one set of boats instead of two different styles of boats that cause havoc in standings.  At FCRCC there was a 14 second difference for us paddling in the Gemini vs. BUK, and that trend was about the same for other teams.  As for travel.  Our boat is an hour away depending on traffic.  If arrangements could me made to provide a trailer or something then we would be more than willing to RENT our BUK.  I wouldn't hurt to ask the other Clubs/Teams I mentioned.   

[rb]

Geminis are fine to race in. They're evenly matched as far as I can tell. We don't like to train in them but racing is ok. Not everyone likes every type of boat. What happens if you race in another city that has Milleniums? or Dynastys? or Flag catching boats? or D2? You have to learn to race in whatever boat is supplied.

I agree that the FCRCC regatta should not have used times when two different fleets are used. Gems are not as fast as Buks. There are other factors too, wind and tide and start position all affect the times. It's better to use placement.

[DiggerPig]

Geminis are fine to race in. They're evenly matched as far as I can tell. We don't like to train in them but racing is ok. Not everyone likes every type of boat. What happens if you race in another city that has Milleniums? or Dynastys? or Flag catching boats? or D2? You have to learn to race in whatever boat is supplied.

I agree that the FCRCC regatta should not have used times when two different fleets are used. Gems are not as fast as Buks. There are other factors too, wind and tide and start position all affect the times. It's better to use placement.

After paddling in False Creek last week in the Gemini's I agree they are not very forgiving ... which can be a good thing when looking at a team's technique.  I have admitted on more than one occasion that I am not a big fan of Gemini's but as a former coach told us ... it's a mindset more than anything else.  If everyone had to paddle in a fleet of Gemini's, Dynasty's, or Millenniums then it would be an equal playing field.  No more discussion about doing one heat in a BUK or one heat in the Gemini's.  Then finding out various time restriction have been factored in, etc ...

I am a fan of the BUK. 

[paddlecwazy]

I must confess, it was I that originally raised the issue before the regatta over the use of time and the two sets of boats.... but when all was said and done, the eventual rankings of the various teams did not appear to be skewed in any way by the use of time and the differing boats.

Maybe it was just good luck, but assuming it was good management then great job to FCRCC and the organisers.  Extra big thanks to Edgewater Casino DWW for forsaking the chance to race and taking over the duties of running the race.

[tjl]

How do we know all the Gemini's are even and fair? They too are now several years old. And the 6 BUK's Water's Edge provides are only used for races, the other 3 BUK's are used every day for practices. Will there be some variance between these boats as well?

The plastic materials used to make the Gemini boats (both original and after replacement of the seats) are more damage resistant than the fibreglass and wood used in the BuK boats.  The fibreglass and wood could get cracks in them allowing water to get into the fibreglass and wood, making the boats unmatched to each other (probably part of the reason the 6-16 boats are no longer matched).

Note that there are different models of BuK boats.  The older type was made until about 2003, while the newer type was made since about 2004.  CDBA (San Francisco area) has mostly the older type but has a few of the newer type.  There is suspicion that the newer type is slower.  So if using BuK boats for a race, it may be desirable to ensure that all older or all newer type boats are used.